Navigating Healthcare as a Woman of Color

Facing healthcare challenges as a woman of color can feel overwhelming. Join me in the tea tasting room as I share my personal journey with migraines, digestive issues, and navigating systemic biases in healthcare. We’ll uncover how harmful stereotypes and racism lead to inadequate treatment for women of color, especially Black women, during pregnancy. I’ll also share tips on patient rights, self-advocacy, and finding culturally competent care. Together, we’ll explore the importance of speaking up and finding strength in the community. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Navigating Healthcare Disparities as Women
• 3:32 Healthcare Disparities for Women of Color
• 9:13 Challenges in Healthcare Advocacy for Women
• 18:07 Advocating for Your Health Rights
• 28:48 Empowering Health Advocacy Through Podcast

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Tea with Tanya. I'm your host, tanya Ambrose, an average millennial navigating life as a maternal health professional, non-profit founder and grad student. Join me in the tea tasting room where we spill the tea on finding balance and promoting positive living while doing it all. Hey, my friend, welcome back to another episode of Tea with Tanya, today's conversation. We're going to be sipping on a cup of classic Earl Grey tea, because this conversation is one I've been thinking about for a long time and it feels personal, but it's very important. And that's talking about something that we don't discuss enough for me, or we don't necessarily talk about enough, but it also affects us on a daily basis, and that is navigating healthcare as a woman of color. Now, this isn't just a random topic for me, it's also part of my lived experience. So I face challenges when it comes to my health. My friend, if you've been listening to the podcast for a while, I have issues like migraines that sometimes leave me debilitated. I can't even do anything. It literally cripples me that when I have a migraine, it's like it feels like death, if that's how death feels like. To be honest, I've also had, like you know, digestive issues like constipation and irregular bowel movements that have gone on for years, and the feeling that I that, even when I muster up the courage to seek help, I'm often not seen or heard, and I'm sure many of you can relate to this. So today, my friend, I'm not just here to give you statistics or research, because, you know, the public health girl in me absolutely wants to do that, but I'm just here to share my story and hopefully we can all take something from it as we navigate this broken health system together, because, again, we have every right to demand the care that we need, and I think sometimes we forget that part we have every right to demand the care that we need. So, whether you're here in the US, like me, or you're in the Caribbean, where I'm from, or anywhere else in the world, these truths, they apply to you. So get that Earl Grey tea and let's get into it.

Speaker 1: 2:05

Now I want to talk about understanding healthcare disparities. I would not be Tanya or the public health practitioner that I am, if I didn't give you a little public health term, okay. So we're going to talk about health and healthcare disparities and this definition that I'm about to read to you, that came from the CDC website. So so, health and healthcare disparities refer to the differences in health and healthcare between groups that stem from broader social and economic inequities. Health disparities include differences in health outcomes, such as your life expectancy, your mortality, health status and the prevalence of certain health conditions as well, whereas healthcare disparities include the differences between groups in measures such as healthcare insurance or healthcare coverage, affordability, access to and the use of care and quality of care. So disparities occurs across multiple factors. That includes your race and your ethnicity, socioeconomic status, your age, your geography, you know, language, gender, disability, disability status, citizenship status and sexual identity and orientation. So these are some. This is what the definition of health and healthcare disparities is, and health disparities results from multiple factors. That include, you know, poverty, environmental threats, inadequate access to healthcare includes poverty, environmental threats, inadequate access to healthcare, individual and behavioral factors and educational inequalities. So I have to give you that definition because I'm a public health girlie.

Speaker 1: 3:32

But when we talk about disparities in healthcare for women of color, it's not just about the stats, it's lived experience, and if you've been on social media anywhere in this world, I'm sure you've seen people who have shared their personal experiences navigating the healthcare system. But for a quick moment, let's look at some numbers, you know, because it's alarming, especially for me. I'm talking to you as someone who's an immigrant here in the United States, but also I've been living in this country for 15 years. That's crazy. I've been in this country for 15 years. Like, what have I done in that 15 years? That's crazy. I've been in this country for 15 years. What have I done in that 15 years? That's crazy. That number is crazy.

Speaker 1: 4:07

But we're not talking about my numbers. We're talking about the numbers as it relates to healthcare and black women. In this country, for instance, black women are three times more likely to die from a pregnancy-related complications than white women. And I know I'm talking about the US, but it's the US either. Across the globe, black and brown women experience worse health outcomes, from maternal health to chronic illnesses.

Speaker 1: 4:31

It's sometimes it almost especially from being in school and just learning what I've been learning it almost feels like the healthcare system wasn't designed with us as Black women or people of color in mind, because in many ways, when you think about the history of it, it wasn't. It really wasn't, you know. And this bias isn't just about doctors or nurses being bad at their jobs, because that's not the case. It's just the result of decades or even centuries of systemic racism that we're still trying to pull away or break away from. You know, they are just deeply. These are just deeply ingrained stereotypes that say women of color, especially black women, you know, don't feel this pain the same way, or somehow we're somewhat stronger. You know, let me tell you, like that myth that we have going on thinking, you know, we don't feel pain the same way or we're strong that same myth is what's killing us right now.

Speaker 1: 5:20

I have seen firsthand in my own life that, from a personal standpoint, in my line of work, I've heard countless stories from women just like me who feel dismissed, ignored or even misunderstood when it comes to seeking care for themselves. So, whether that's for something as significant as childbirth or something as simple as just managing our menstrual pain, our symptoms sometimes are often minimized and to me, honestly, it's really annoying, it's just exhausting at this point in time. And that doesn't even stop there. Like the, women in the Caribbean and other parts of the world face their own unique challenges too when it comes to healthcare, whether that could be, you know, lack of access to quality care, or you know, sometimes there are cultural barriers or just a simple mistrust of the medical system. So navigating healthcare as a woman of color can feel, honestly, like an uphill battle, wherever you are in the world. Honestly speaking, I'm not going to leave a light here, light to you. So I want to share a story about myself, which is why another inspiration behind this episode.

Speaker 1: 6:21

Let's start with my migraines. For anyone, for you, my friend that's listening if you've experienced a migraine, then you know how disruptive they can be, okay, how they can make even the simplest of tasks unbearable, like for me. It just it cripples me. I cannot do anything when I have a migraine. There are times when I'm trying to push through said migraine because I have things I have to get done. Adultery is just ghetto at this point. But you would think that something as common as migraines, doctors would take them seriously, right? Well, honestly, that's wrong in my opinion. In my experience Over the years, I've gone to different healthcare providers seeking relief and back then my migraines were considered to me mild. You know, and each time I've had to explain.

Speaker 1: 7:09

You know how these migraines are, how they impact my day-to-day life. You know how they disrupt my work, my school, like it's my function and all. Sometimes it just leaves me drained for days because I'm just tired of talking about the same thing, you know. And instead of feeling supported, you know I've oftentimes been dismissed.

Speaker 1: 7:24

You know I've been told numerous times oh, you know, you need to manage your stress better because you know you're in school, so maybe you may be working full time and being in school. You know it's causing too much. It's too much stress for you. So you need to manage your stress. See what you can take away, see what you can remove from your plate, you know. Or just take some telomere, ibuprofen, whatever it is. And I remember one time this doctor told me you know, just drink some more water. I was like, okay, I understood that part, because do I need to drink more water? Absolutely yes. So I'm not going to deny that. But again, these are just not the migraines that I was having, the the tips they were giving me. I needed more than that, you know. And it's not even just my migraines to like for.

Speaker 1: 8:00

For quite for a couple of years now, I've been struggling with, like some digestive issues, like you know, constipation or irregular bowel movement. That might be TMI. But you know what we keep? We spill the tea here in the tea tasting room. You know like I've oftentimes brought up that in my appointments, thinking you know, okay, they'll listen to me, they'll help me find a solution.

Speaker 1: 8:18

But honestly, over and over and time and time again, you know I just felt like I was just talking to a wall because, oh, you know you need to fix your diet, because you know you're coming from the Caribbean and you know, as a Caribbean woman, you know you eat too much starch, so think about changing your diet or take more fiber. Or you know, without even asking any deeper questions, like I remember, I had a doctor at one point in time that was prescribing medication, telling me that I have stomach ulcers, did not do any freaking tests, just looking at me. And I'm here sitting in the car from him explaining my symptoms, what's going on, and this doctor told me that I had stomach ulcers, so he prescribed a bunch of medication for me. And I will be transparent, because at the time I honestly think I had the knowledge about the knowledge that I have now as it relates to health and the healthcare system, because, again, working in public health, I'm a land of work, I'm exposed to a lot now, but at the time I was naive, because, I'm going to be honest, I worked in the healthcare system for a minute and sometimes I make.

Speaker 1: 9:13

I'm like one of those patients where I never used to speak up back then, like no, the last couple of years that ain't going to fly with me. But you know, um, I was just tired of just hearing the oh, drink more water, change your diet. And X Y Z. It's just like I can't be bothered. I'm just left feeling physically uncomfortable, even emotionally and mentally drained. Because let's be real, if I were a different person, if I didn't look the way that I look, I probably would be treated. Would I be treated the same way? Probably not, I don't think so. So it's just kind of annoying and exhausting having to constantly prove how severe a pain or one of my symptoms are. You know what I mean and that's just the reality of so many women, especially women of color, that they face when it comes to going to a doctor's appointment.

Speaker 1: 9:57

You know, living here in the US, because I'm going to tell you this growing up in the Caribbean, caribbean, right, I didn't go over on racism, to honest, because we're diverse other people in antigua, right, can our healthcare system be better? Heck, yes, like that's that you. That's not even a that's. It can be better, it needs to be better. You understand where I come from, but I sometimes have questioned the system here in the united states since I moved here and live here and like am I overreacting? Should I just accept this?

Speaker 1: 10:25

You know, I've been victim of saying you know what these doctors and nurses, owners, practitioners. They have gone to school for however long years and they've done X, y, z. So whatever they say, I'm supposed to essentially believe I had that way of thinking when it came to healthcare professionals and I'm sure if you're listening you can relate to. You know what the other doctor, whatever I tell them, whatever they say I must do, I have to do it. I was that person at one point in time. But after a while, when you realize you're not being heard, it's like you get fed up. You just get fed up with this shit. You know what I'm saying. So it's a lot mentally and it's a lot emotionally as well. So I want to take a moment to talk about how this experience impacts us emotionally.

Speaker 1: 11:07

For me, it's hard to describe what it feels like when you walk into a doctor's office and the first thing you think isn't always about how can I get better, but more so is how can I make sure that they take me seriously? Today I've had those thoughts and, to be honest, my friend, that is a very, very heavy burden to carry and that leads, you know, it takes a toll on our emotional health and we don't talk about that enough as well, like when you have to constantly fight to be heard. It wears on me emotionally, so I'm sure it weighs on you emotionally. It's not just about the physical symptoms anymore. It becomes the this emotional exhaustion of just explaining, re-explaining and still not being taken seriously. I have left many appointments super frustrated, sometimes even with tears in my eyes, because I have to choose between do I want to be this professional client or do I want to go off on this person? And then I also still want to respect the healthcare provider. But it's just so frustrating not being heard or wondering why it's so hard to get someone to care about what's happening in my body.

Speaker 1: 12:11

I remember one time I had a particularly bad migraine. I mean, all my migraines are bad, but it was so intense that I couldn't see straight. I was nauseous for a while and I think I blanked out at one point in time and I live alone, so I mean imagine blanking out living by yourself. So I ended up having to go to the emergency room and I went there and thankfully I went the other day when they had like a slow day, and I was seen in a short space of time by a physician assistant. I remember explaining my symptoms to the PA, you know, telling them what I was going through, what happened, and he gave me some medication that they call a cocktail and I keep forgetting what's in that medicine. But let me tell you that shit did work wonders. It worked wonders okay, and I remember him telling me because at one point I was like you know, I'm feeling better, can I go? He wanted to run some tests and he told me he was going to send a neuro consult to my doctor so that she can refer me out to go see a neurologist Because, again, my migraines are just next level. Message my doctor a few days after, let her know. You know I passed out X, y, z. This is what happened. What can we do? She told me she's going to send in a neuro consult. It's been a year and a half now.

Speaker 1: 13:15

My friend and I have not had that neuro consult. I have not had that neuro consult. She keeps brushing me off. Every time I go to the doctor to see her, come and use your checkup, she's telling me you know, change your diet, exercise more. I'm going to up the dose on this particular medication. It's always an up the dose or change the dose on the medication. It's never let me send you for X-ray or MRI or let's go see what's happening to a neurologist or whatnot. It's never that. It's just always take more pills or whatever. And you know, I just keep feeling like she was just brushing me off and I tend to leave my appointments feeling more frustrated than anything else. You know what I mean and it's just really.

Speaker 1: 13:53

It's really unfortunate for me personally, you know, because, again, stress and anxiety are real parts of the healthcare journey, especially for women of color. Like, what does it do to us when people, the people we trust with our health, the professionals who are supposed to help us feel better, make us feel invisible or less than For me? It chips away at your confidence, your trust. It makes you second guess your instincts. I've been in situations in my line of work where some women have just stopped going to the doctor altogether, because the fight feels too exhausting and they can't be bothered anymore. Obviously, my role is to encourage them, to ensure that they don't give up, but how to advocate for themselves and speak up for themselves. But there's this mental load that we carry, which is an extra layer of anxiety that most people don't understand Because, again, it's not just about making the appointments, it's about preparing yourself to battle.

Speaker 1: 14:47

It's like you're preparing yourself to defend your own pain, your own body, as if it's on some kind of freaking trial or something we experience that. But, however, my friend, I want to remind you that your health is worth fighting for. You deserve to be cared for, you deserve to be cared for, you deserve to be cared for, you deserve to be listened to. And while I know it's easier said than done, hello, that's me talking to myself. That's why we're going to talk about advocating for ourselves. It's why I keep talking about the importance of advocating for ourselves, because that's how we start to change things little by little. It's not going to happen overnight, because we've been trying to do this for a while now, but because it's not going to happen overnight because we've been trying to do this for a while now, but because it's such a heavy weight to carry when you don't feel like advocating for yourself. Well, listen you. It's important that you speak up, advocate for yourself, no matter what, because, again, you deserve to be cared for.

Speaker 1: 15:36

Okay, now the truth is, this isn't about individual doctors or even specific experiences. You know it's comes down, especially in this country. It comes down to systemic racism in healthcare how black and brown women have been historically overlooked or undertreated or dismissed. There's been studies that show that black women are often believed to experience less pain than their white counterparts, and that, to me, is an unconscious bias that stems from, you know, when you think about the history of slavery and the medical experimentation on Black bodies. You know, even now, in big 2024, we are still fighting against these deeply embedded stereotypes. When you think about it, it's like wow. You know, how are we here in 2024 still dealing with this thing? We still cannot be fully seen in a system that should be, and is, dedicated to saving lives. You know, and even for those of us in the Caribbean or other parts of the world where healthcare access might be even more limited or there are barriers that are just so significant, you know that could be lack of resources, maybe long wait times or just simply not having enough, maybe culturally competent providers. You know, women in these regions also face unique struggles as well.

Speaker 1: 16:55

But again, there is a need to advocate for ourselves, no matter what. You know, there's this idea in the Caribbean that I grew up in, antigua, a small Caribbean island in the West Indies, and sometimes, you know, we've been told, sometimes in the day, back in the day, that you know you shouldn't really complain too much. You know you're still alive, you should be grateful, you know pray about everything and whatnot. But there has to come. There comes a point in time where being alive can no longer just be enough, like we really just deserve quality care, point blank period. We deserve quality care. We deserve to thrive and not just survive. We deserve to thrive and not just survive.

Speaker 1: 17:33

So let's talk about advocacy because I'm going to be honest, especially as a public health practitioner we cannot wait for this system to change overnight. It's not going to happen. We've been fighting for this system to change across our boards. It's not going to happen overnight. But while we continue to fight for better care, we also have to find a way to demand the care that we deserve right now, in this present moment, in this present time. So how do we navigate this system that wasn't built for us? You know? How do we advocate for the care that we deserve?

Speaker 1: 18:07

I'm going to share some practical steps. In case you forgot or you don't know, this is what you need to know. First and foremost, my friend, know your rights as a patient. No matter where you are in the world, you have the right to ask questions, to demand explanations and to understand every step of your care. Never, ever, my friend, feel bad for asking a doctor or a nurse practitioner to repeat something or explain it differently if you don't understand. Remember again this is your body, your health. You deserve to be informed as a patient, you have the right to be informed about and make decisions regarding your care. You know you have the right to care that is free from any sort of discrimination and whatnot. So you definitely want to know your rights as a patient. So that's one step know your rights as a patient.

Speaker 1: 18:55

The second thing I want to talk about is bringing an advocate with you to appointments, if possible. Now, this might sound easier said than done, given the timeframe of life and people are busy, but you do have the right to have a patient advocate with you. That could be a family member, it could be a friend, it could even be a doula. If you're giving birth, you know, just having someone with you can help you feel supported and make sure nothing is overlooked. Sometimes it's honestly hard to advocate for yourself in the moment, especially when you're feeling vulnerable.

Speaker 1: 19:23

For me, several years ago, I was not the person that would speak up for my health. Now, today, tanya, with the experience that I've had in the healthcare system, but just from the knowledge that I've gained from going through my bachelor's in public health and now doing my master's in public health, there's so many things I've been exposed to now that I am going to advocate for myself, no matter what I'm going to do it. There have been instances. I've been blessed enough to have friends who are doctors as well. So if I'm going to an appointment and I'm worried about something, I can simply send them a text. You know asking the question what should I say, what should I do? And they'll respond. That may not necessarily be your story, but, again, you do have the right to bring an advocate. It could be a partner, whoever it is, but you deserve and you have the right to have a patient advocate with you.

Speaker 1: 20:09

The third thing is don't be afraid to ask for a second opinion. Too often we accept what's given to us because we don't want to seem difficult or we don't want to come across like if we're questioning the doctor's expertise or anything. It's like, no, we're not doing that. But let me tell you this If something doesn't feel right or if you're being dismissed, it's honestly okay to go anywhere. There are doctors and family nurse practitioners out there who will listen to you and take you seriously and get you the help that you deserve.

Speaker 1: 20:39

The next thing is to do your research. I am going to put this here Do your research. I've had to learn this the hard way. You know educating yourself about symptoms, possible treatments and types of questions to ask can help you feel more empowered when you're with your healthcare provider. Now, I'm not telling you to go on WebMD and then you have a cut on your finger and it's going to tell you you're pregnant. I'm not talking about that. You want to do your research when it comes to anything health-related from reputable sources. Make symptoms or responses that they're giving you right. Technically, we should not do this all the time, but it's just so necessary in a system that's just broken and doesn't really prioritize our needs. It's good to be knowledgeable about your body and what you know. Anything help related? Because, again, you are your best advocate For me.

Speaker 1: 21:28

Sometimes I struggle personally when I'm going to the doctor because I know what I know. Like do I want to speak up and let them know that you know what? I know what you're saying, I know what you're doing. You're not about to outsmart me here, or do I want to be passive sometimes? No, I have to speak up for myself. Do your research. If you have questions, like I mentioned in the previous episode before this, you know have questions. Plan your visits ahead so that when you're asking these health professionals questions, you know they can see you did your research and they have no choice, essentially, but to answer you.

Speaker 1: 21:58

Another thing that I think we need to look about is to push for culturally competent care, and I put this tip in because in the Caribbean and other regions where you know healthcare might be less accessible, it's important to seek out healthcare providers who understand your background, even your cultural context, and your unique needs. For me, I'm an immigrant living in the United States, I'm from Antigua and sometimes, you know, because of the cultural difference, sometimes talking to my provider who has no clue or any understanding of my culture sometimes can be challenging, you know, and I think for me too, it's why, as a nonprofit founder or just as a reproductive maternal health all that health educator I often can sympathize with people who are coming from different walks of life because, again, that's my experience not being able to be understood because, you know, oh, she has an accent, oh, the history is different or the culture is different. So definitely we need more doctors who look like us, who come from where we come from and who treat us with the respect that we deserve. Because, again, for those of us in the Caribbean or other regions we're limited access to healthcare. This can feel harder, but that's why it's important for us to build relationships with your healthcare provider, demand the attention that you deserve, of course, of course, the healthcare system in Antigua can it be better? Heck, yes, our healthcare system back home in Antigua, it can be much better, but that's why you're going to utilize any community health clinics in the villages and if you can just look for a doctor who's going to understand you and understand your needs and provide the care that you deserve. Also, especially since COVID-19, we've seen an uptick in telehealth care. Now that can be a game changer. Now there are more and more online platforms offering consultations, which can be, you know, helpful, especially in underserved areas. But also, again, even in these same underserved areas and in the rural areas, people don't have access to internet either. So, you know, telehealth while we said it can be it can help those in underserved areas, it also can be a barrier because, again, they may not have access to, you know, internet as well. So definitely just advocate for yourself by finding these resources. Even if they're not right in your community, you can find them.

Speaker 1: 24:12

And finally, one of the biggest things I've learned is to trust your gut, my friend, trust your gut. If something feels off, it probably is. No one knows your body like you do. Okay, nobody tell anybody like you. If you feel like you're not being cared for, don't be afraid to speak up. I know that can be intimidating, trust me, I know. But again, your health is too important to be quiet. I can tell you this when I have gone against my gut, things just always, always go haywire, no matter what, every single time. So I'm at a place in my life now where, if my gut tells me no, it's going to be a big no, because I know every time the proof is there. Every time I go against my gut, something bad happens.

Speaker 1: 24:55

Now, as we're getting ready to wrap up, here's the thing. Advocating for yourself is important, but we also need to advocate for each other. We need to be talking to our sisters, our mothers, our friends, our partners, our husbands, our brothers no, just talking to them to make sure that they know that we don't have to accept subpar care Like the mediocrity. We're not going for that. We're not going to accept that sort of care. Think about even joining community organizations, supporting policies that address health care disparities and getting involved in health care activism, because that can make a real difference. We argue about everything else. We should be arguing and advocating for health care policies to be changed so that we can bridge the gaps between healthcare, especially when it comes to women of color.

Speaker 1: 25:43

For me, one of the things that I'm most proud of when it comes to my non-profit school Black Kids is the fact that we work to remove the barriers that prevent access from any sort of health education resources. As a result that, we are empowering individuals to be knowledgeable about their health so that way, they can foster lifelong well-being and health equity in our communities, and that's one of the things that I'm very proud of. When it comes to scrub line care as well, it's very, very important, and I also want to mention that self-care goes beyond the bubbles and the baths and the meditation and the tea that we drink every day. It's really about taking charge of your health, and this has been a common theme on the podcast. When I'm saying you know, I'm all about self-care, but it's more than that. You know, it's about taking charge of your health. It's about knowing when something is wrong and not letting anyone gaslight you into thinking otherwise, because let me tell you, I have been medically gaslit before and I'm telling you it's not a good feeling. And to those of us, those of you in the Caribbean and other parts of the world, where resources might be stretched thin, I'm encouraging you to build networks within your community. We know the power and the importance of our village and the community.

Speaker 1: 26:55

Advocate for healthcare reform. I don't care what the minister of health may say in Antigua, I don't care. Advocate for healthcare reform. Push for better resources. We can and must have better resources and demand that our health systems reflect the dignity that we deserve, you know, and demand accountability from our governments and support local health initiatives and organizations that's catering to women as well.

Speaker 1: 27:21

You know, change does take time, but every voice matters, especially in our communities where resources may be scarce. Because, again, my friend, we are our best advocates and we must keep showing up for ourselves in a system that wasn't necessarily built for us. But we can't stop there. We have to demand change, not just for us but ultimately for the generations of women who will come after us, for your daughters, your nieces. It's the generation who's going to come after us.

Speaker 1: 27:53

All right, so I know this isn't an easy topic for us to talk about, but it's one that we have to keep talking about, because navigating health here as a woman, as a woman of color, is challenging. But one thing I know about us as women is that we are resilient. We can advocate for ourselves, our families and our future generation. To you, my friend, to every woman of color listening to this, remember this your health matters, your pain is valid and you deserve to be heard, seen and treated with respect. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise because, again, navigating the healthcare system, it's already tough, but together we can really and truly fight for the care that we deserve. We already know that there's power in numbers, okay, so I hope today's episode has empowered you to take control of your health journey and you've given you the tools to advocate for yourself as well.

Speaker 1: 28:48

If you have any more questions or concerns, please reach out to me via Instagram or through email. If you want to share your story, or if you even need support navigating this process, let me tell you this you're not alone. Feel free to reach out to me. Until next time, take care of yourselves and each other, and remember you are your best advocate. I love you for listening. Thank you for joining me for another episode of Tea with Tanya. If you like this episode, be sure to share it with a friend. Don't forget to follow on Instagram at Tea with Tanya podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the weekly Tea Talk newsletter and, of course, rate on Apple or Spotify and subscribe wherever you listen. See you next time. I love you for listening.